Session 2 hand 5 -- Grand against 4

Discussion of hands from past BSkA tournaments (or other events) and how they were bid and played. Skat problems. General discussion of strategy and tactics.
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Patrick Phair
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:26 pm

Session 2 hand 5 -- Grand against 4

Post by Patrick Phair » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:39 pm

This is hand 5 of session 2 last Sunday.

Code: Select all

2/5    Vorhand     Mittelhand  Hinterhand  Skat
 J     -           D           CSH             
 C     AT7         K98         -           Q   
 S     ATK         -           Q987            
 H     Q7          ATK8        9               
 D     AT          K8          Q9          7   
 
I was Vorhand. This looks like a Grand against 4, so after Mittelhand passed I said "yes" to the bids coming from John as Hinterhand. So far so good, but how far is it right to go?

With these hands there is always the risk of bad breaks, and once the bid reaches 50 there is also the risk of a black jack in the skat.

I felt it was reasonable to continue at least to 59, since (even though I have two sevens) it is possible that John is bidding to 59 with 8, QJ97, -, KJ987 or similar.

Beyond that it is clearly more dangerous, but the bidding stopped suddenly at 55. With both black suits being ruffed I went for -240, the diamond ace saving me from schneider.

Patrick

Mike Tobias
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:49 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Session 2 hand 5 -- Grand against 4

Post by Mike Tobias » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Another option if you think the game has become high risk due to the bidding, is to play Hearts without 7.

As HH has bid 55, in either case I would discard SAS10.

Patrick Phair
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:26 pm

Re: Session 2 hand 5 -- Grand against 4

Post by Patrick Phair » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:45 pm

I am surprised at the suggestion of discarding SA and S10. While the bidding to 55 increases the chance of a spade void it doesn't promise one, while the unfortunate presence of a club in the skat means that I know the second round won't stand up.

Hearts against seven costs 160 if it fails, while clubs against four costs only 120, or 144 if I am schneidered. Therefore to go for it I must deem there to be a significant chance of making, but not enough that the original call of Grand should be preferred.

Thinking about this suggested an obscure query about the rules. Suppose that a jack in the skat means that I need schneider to fulfil my bid. Then if I take 31 to 89 points I go off, with one extra multiplier for overbidding. Is the score the same if the defence makes schneider? (Presumably it is more if they make schwarz.)

Patrick

John McLeod
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: Session 2 hand 5 -- Grand against 4

Post by John McLeod » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:13 am

To answer your last question, the score is the same if the defence make Schneider. Your bid rounded up to the next multiple of your contract base value and doubled is the minimum you can lose. You only lose more than that if the game value doubled is more than that minimum.

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