Bidding at the Kite

Discussion of hands from past BSkA tournaments (or other events) and how they were bid and played. Skat problems. General discussion of strategy and tactics.

Bidding at the Kite

Postby Patrick Phair » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:20 pm

Below are six hands which cost me points at the recent tournament at the Kite. I would be interested to hear people's opinions on them.

(a)
C H
--
K Q 7
A 10 K
10 Q

You are Vorhand, and Mittelhand bids 22 at you. Do you hold?
If yes, do you also hold 23?

(b)
C D
A Q
A 10
K Q
A 9

You are Mittelhand, and Vorhand passes your 18. How far do you hold bids from Hinterhand?

(c)
C H D
--
A 9
A 8
10 Q 8

You are Mittelhand and win the bidding when Vorhand passes your 24. Do you exchange?

(d)
C H
A K 7
9
8
10 9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?
Suppose you say 18. Vorhand passes. Do you say "yes" to Hinterhand's 20?

(e)
S
10 Q 7
A 10
K 7
10 8

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid, and if yes how far?

(f)
C H
A 8
9
K Q 9
9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?

Patrick
Patrick Phair
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:26 pm

Re: Bidding at the Kite

Postby Mike Tobias » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:23 am

Good questions, most are borderline and might depend on mood at the time.

(a)
C H
--
K Q 7
A 10 K
10 Q

You are Vorhand, and Mittelhand bids 22 at you. Do you hold?
If yes, do you also hold 23?


Yes, I hold 22, and then think very hard about going to 30 for Spades Hand, I don't think I'd hold 33.

(b)
C D
A Q
A 10
K Q
A 9

You are Mittelhand, and Vorhand passes your 18. How far do you hold bids from Hinterhand?

I take this to 48.
(c)
C H D
--
A 9
A 8
10 Q 8

You are Mittelhand and win the bidding when Vorhand passes your 24. Do you exchange?

Very good question, I probably pick up the Skat at 22, settle for Diamonds Hand at 27, but may well have bid on to 48 if necessary.
(d)
C H
A K 7
9
8
10 9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?
Suppose you say 18. Vorhand passes. Do you say "yes" to Hinterhand's 20?

(e)
S
10 Q 7
A 10
K 7
10 8

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid, and if yes how far?

(f)
C H
A 8
9
K Q 9
9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?


In all of these three, the gut reaction is 18 and then pass, but there's a temptation to bid to 23 or 24(d) 24(e) and 20(f) The most tempting one is (e), you're guaranteed a 5 card suit, and looking at it again, I can also see a case for stopping at 20.

I suspect over the long haul though, that 18 and out would be the best in all three.

Off now to check whether I played any of these hands myself, and what I actually did.
Mike Tobias
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:49 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Bidding at the Kite

Postby Mike Tobias » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:40 am

It appears I played the same hands in a,b and c

a) I got it for 18, so didn't have the problem
b) I did bid on, and got it for 23, I suspect I would have taken it to 48 on the day.
c) I also got this for 24, but went against my own advice and picked the Skat up.

All won.
Mike Tobias
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:49 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Bidding at the Kite

Postby Patrick Phair » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:35 pm

Here are the hands with what actually happened.

(a) C H
--
K Q 7
A 10 K
10 Q

You are Vorhand, and Mittelhand bids 22 at you. Do you hold?
If yes, do you also hold 23?

(Session 2, board 11) I decided I didn't want to go Hand with such a weak trump suit, and I didn't want to play spades if Mittelhand was bidding on the same suit, so I passed 22. Given Mittelhand's hand he would clearly have bid 23 so the latter point is irrelevant. Mittelhand (Robin) went off in his Null, while Mike was left in 18 with my cards and picked up SA and H9. The jacks split and S10 was singleton so Mike made Gss for 96.

(b) C D
A Q
A 10
K Q
A 9

You are Mittelhand, and Vorhand passes your 18. How far do you hold bids from Hinterhand?

(Session 3, hand 23) I thought the hand was too weak to commit to Grand, so every step in the bidding was increasing the chance of playing in a four-card suit. Mike with my cards held 23 and exchanged, so he was committed to clubs or Grand. The skat gave him CK and H7, and Mike made Gs with the jacks splitting. (I don't know how the play went.) At my table Beth made Null -- the skat gave her nine safe cards and I don't think it can be beaten.

(c) C H D
--
A 9
A 8
10 Q 8

You are Mittelhand and win the bidding when Vorhand passes your 24. Do you exchange?

(Session 3, hand 3) I had bid beyond 18 aiming at Diamonds hand, and I am not sure if I would have bid beyond 24 as Mike says he might have. When left in 24 I played Dh, and made schneider for the unusual score of 63 when SJ turned up in the skat. The other card in the skat was S8, so there appear to be only six tricks in Grand with both spades and diamonds breaking 3-1. (You can make seven by keeping diamonds and leading the 10 or queen to pin the 9.) Mike made Grand for 120 but I don't know how the play went.

(d) C H
A K 7
9
8
10 9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?
Suppose you say 18. Vorhand passes. Do you say "yes" to Hinterhand's 20?

(Session 4, hand 21) I passed when Mark bid 20, since the hand is marginal in the first place and I wanted a choice of suits. Beth held Robin's 20 and made a club game despite an unhelpful skat (S8, HQ). Looking at the full hand I would not expect that game to make, though it is possible to catch C10 by leading jacks.

(e) S
10 Q 7
A 10
K 7
10 8

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid, and if yes how far?

(Session 4, hand 13) The scoresheet shows Mike as Vorhand bidding up to 20 and going off in spades. It looks as if I must have bid up to 20 just to test the water, since Hinterhand looks unsuitable for a bid. I don't understand the comment about being guaranteed a 5-card suit, though in fact CK was in the skat (with S8) so Beth at the other table made a club game after bidding 22 on my hand.


(f) C H
A 8
9
K Q 9
9 7

You are Mittelhand. Do you bid?

(Session 4, hand 1) I decided the hand was too weak so I didn't bid. Nor did anyone else at my table, but at the other table Beth bid 18, found DJ and S10 in the skat and made a heart game.

Patrick
Patrick Phair
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:26 pm


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