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Feb 22 session 4 — déjà vu

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:40 pm
by Patrick Phair
In session 4, while playing hand 21, I noticed that the play in trumps (clubs) was going very similarly to hand 13.
Code: Select all
         Vorhand            Mittelhand         Hinterhand         Skat
 4.13    J: D               J: S H             J: C               J:     
         C: K Q 8 7         C: A 9             C: 10              C:     
         S: A Q 7           S: 8               S: 10 K 9          S:     
         H: A               H: 10 K 7          H: Q 8             H: 9   
         D: 10              D: K 9             D: A Q 7           D: 8   
         
 4.21    J: D               J: S H             J: C               J:     
         C: K Q 8 7         C: A 9             C: 10              C:     
         S: A Q             S: 8 7             S: 10 K 9          S:     
         H: A 10            H: K 7             H: Q 8             H: 9   
         D: 9               D: 10 K            D: A Q 7           D: 8   

Four cards were different in the whole deal: S7 and D10 were swapped with H10 and D9.

Then while writing up the hands and before reaching these two I noted two skats containing H9 and D8. One of these was hand 14:
Code: Select all
        Vorhand            Mittelhand         Hinterhand         Skat
 4.14    J:                 J: S H D           J: C               J:     
         C: A K 9 8         C: 10 Q            C: 7               C:     
         S: A Q 8 7         S: 9               S: 10 K            S:     
         H: 7               H: K               H: A 10 Q 8        H: 9   
         D: 10              D: K Q 7           D: A 9             D: 8   

The rest of the hand is quite different from the others, so maybe this one is just random. However there is another pair of similar hands (3 and 18), one of which has this same skat:
Code: Select all
         Vorhand            Mittelhand         Hinterhand         Skat
 4.03    J: S D             J: H               J: C               J:     
         C: 10 Q            C: A 9 8           C: K 7             C:     
         S: A 9             S: 8 7             S: K Q             S: 10 
         H: K 8             H: 7               H: A 10 Q          H: 9   
         D: Q 7             D: 10 K 8          D: A 9             D:     
         
 4.18    J: S D             J: H               J: C               J:     
         C: 10 Q            C: A K 9 8         C: 7               C:     
         S: A 9             S: 8 7             S: 10 K Q          S:     
         H: K 8             H: 7               H: A 10 Q          H: 9   
         D: Q 7             D: 10 K            D: A 9             D: 8   

This time only three cards (CK, S10 and D8) move, but since the players were in different seats nobody noticed at the time.

Does anyone have any idea how this came about?

Patrick

Re: Feb 22 session 4 — déjà vu

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:41 pm
by John McLeod
When I deal boards I deal session 4 first and work back towards session 1, so that the cards end up sorted for the first time they have played. I'm wondering whether this kind of thing can happen if you forget to shuffle the new pack of cards (enough) before dealing it out the first time. The order of cards in a new pack is always J:CSHD K:CSHD Q:CSHD A:CSHD, C:T987, S:T987, H:T987, D:T987.

Re: Feb 22 session 4 — déjà vu

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:38 am
by Patrick Phair
This must be behind what is going on. There is a 5-step property in both pairs of similar hands: an example of this is C10, S9, H8 and D7 being in the same hand.

Patrick